Modern Door Hardware Solutions: Balancing Egress, Accessibility, and Building Resilience

This podcast provides design professionals with a comprehensive exploration of how door hardware contributes to safe egress, accessible pathways, and long-term building performance. Through a blend of industry context, technical guidance, and real-world lessons learned, we will examine how evolving codes, ADA requirements, building standards, and sustainability priorities influence hardware selection and design decisions. Listeners will gain insight into the function of exit devices, access control technologies, weatherization strategies, and durability considerations across a range of occupancy types. The session highlights how proper specification, documentation, and coordination promote occupant safety, support universal design, enhance project resilience, and reduce the risk of performance failures.

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Transcript

Hello, and welcome to the SpecShaman podcast, the show that explores the world of building product manufacturers, architects and engineers, sustainable design and technology and trends. We engage in thought-provoking discussions with renowned experts, industry pioneers, and visionaries who are making a significant impact in the construction industry. Join us as we explore groundbreaking ideas, revolutionary concepts, and the latest advancements shaping the built environment.

I hope you enjoy this week's episode. Let's get started. Welcome to the SpecShaman podcast.

I'm your host, Megan Vipond, and today we're exploring how domestic innovation continues to shape the products and principles that define our built environment. We're joined today by Russell Hansman, product trainer at D-TEX, a company recognized internationally for their life safety and security door hardware, their loss prevention and architectural hardware, and integrated door security systems. Russell, thank you so much for being with us today.

A pleasure. To start us off, can you introduce yourself? Tell us a little bit about your background in the building and design industry. Yes, I've been with D-TEX Corporation since 1988.

I was employed as a repair technician and moved into being a phone support backup, and then gradually moved into the repair technician role of full-time, and then eventually was moved back into the phone support, and then eventually ran into the technical support department and was supervisor of the technical support department, and then was recently promoted to the product trainer. So I've been directly working with locksmiths, spec writers, architects, and electricians on installations, applications, and troubleshooting. And I have a degree in electronics, and I'm also co-founder and president of a charity called Roundup for Charity, a nonprofit community service organization that focuses on activities support and comfort for first responders, military, and veterans.

Fantastic. We're really excited to have you on the podcast. Thank you.

Now, over the last century, we've seen massive changes in how buildings are designed and constructed. How has American ingenuity shaped the standards for safety, accessibility, and performance in the built environment? The industry has evolved with innovations in engineering, building materials, and verification have improved structurally safety. Now, the American Disabilities Act in 1990 came along, and then the American National Standards Institute of 1961.

These changes in the standards have created a change in the industry as to being able to handle the American Disabilities Act. And that all occurred in 1961. And then the energy crisis in 1970 also changed the way of HVAC installation and windows and doors and how they function.

We also have the instance of pyrotechnics that occur in different events. And pyrotechnics in buildings has created a number of different tragedies that has allowed us to improve the way the building functions, how it works, how to use the door, where to find the doors. And then the LEEDS certification also is a leadership in energy and environmental design.

So that created a framework of designing construction in green buildings. Sourcing is something that's become a key factor in modern project planning. What are some of the unique advantages of sourcing materials and hardware from domestic suppliers in terms of speed, quality assurance, and sustainability? Well some advantages are faster lead times and the enhanced quality control.

Other advantages are the reduced transit time, the greater flexibility and responsiveness. You have a language barrier maybe in a different country. You have different time zones.

So those types of things have allowed for the advantages. And then communication which helps. You can get multiple sources and not be one sourced.

And then less transportation energy and the ethics labor of standards allowing the standards to be the same here domestically. How has product design evolved to meet changing building codes, ADA requirements, and sustainability certifications? The door hardware industry has enhanced its capability of technology to allow for changes in the building code. Engineering need to be mindful of developing and product switch in the future while remembering the history of how they got here and technology is here to stay and evolving.

And with innovation accelerating, it's really no surprise that access control and integrated safety solutions are evolving just as fast. And with those emerging technologies in access control, smart systems, and integrated safety solutions, how can manufacturers ensure their innovations align with evolving trends? Well, technology is changing daily and so we have to be mindful of that. We have to be able to have our designers kind of look at what current events are happening, what products are coming out, and have an open mind of looking at the design, having a blank sheet of paper, and thinking about that.

We have to adhere to the latest building requirements, which means to conform to ANSI and BHMA, but at the same time, looking for what is in the future and what is the next item that's going to make us have a better feel for our safety and security in a building. What role do you think there is for collaboration between manufacturers, architects, and specifiers? How does that play a role in shaping the next century of American design? Ultimately, the main goal is the safety of all of us. So the safety, accessibility, and the security is done with new materials, smaller electronics, and more sophistication, but we have to take all of that and still come up with the follow the codes and the collaboration of what will make an opening more user-friendly and aesthetic pleasing.

So collaboration really is going to be that catalyst for progress in the industry. Yes, that's correct. If you could give design professionals one takeaway about the value of U.S.-based innovation, what would it be? The innovations come with superior industry compliance with the life safety and the range of codes within the United States.

Now that we've set the stage, let's take a closer look at the technical side. For design professionals, this is really where design decisions directly impact life safety and building performance. What role do exit devices play in emergency egress and occupant safety? So emergency egress is a vital role into making sure we all stay safe.

And so different ways of code compliance that came up with that is there's so many people that you could put in a building. So that is the start of making sure that you don't overcrowd a building so the egress for everyone to exit in a safe manner is in place. And that also comes into play whenever you start talking about if it's a dark space or if it's smoke filled, if there is a fire in there you can't see.

And the overcrowding is eliminated because of the occupancy number that you have in the space. So all of this comes into play and helps protect you and protect all of us when we go into a building. So that's a great foundation.

Now let's define some of the more basics for our audience. Could you tell us the difference between the four different access device types? Well you have different doors and you have definitely different ways of looking at a door. It could be a single door or a pair of doors.

And so what you come into play there is you have in the industry you have REM exit devices which is a latch bolt or deadbolt at the end of a bar that locks the door and allows you to push the bar to get out. And then you have other types of mortise devices that they're encapsulated in the door and then have a surface either lever or exit device on that door that's controlling the latch that's inside of the door. And then you have surface vertical rods which is on a pair of doors that's going to have a latch at the top of the door and a bolt at the bottom of the door that is surface applied so you see everything as you're walking up to that door.

And then you have the concealed vertical rods which is inside of the door. You have an exit device that's on the door that's controlling those bars that are inside of it. And what are the main differences between grade one, grade two, and grade three exit devices from a durability standpoint? Grade one and grade two and grade three exit devices are all just that.

They're tested on different levels. The UL and or ETL testing on those are tested for 500,000 cycles versus 250,000 cycles and 100,000 cycles. And that testing is to make sure that each one of those grades fulfills the requirements of what the UL and ETL specifications are.

How do exit device requirements differ between project types? Okay, as you get into the requirements for the differencings of how a door is, what a door is, what does that door do for that company? What does it do for the business? So when you get into a warehouse, you have low usage on those back doors, but you want to make sure that you have security to be able to get so people don't use those doors that aren't supposed to be using those doors. So that low usage is that door is going to be sitting there. So in case of an emergency, you can get out that door.

But on the other side of that, maybe an employer doesn't want someone to just use that door all the time because they're preventing for losses that go out that door. So a warehouse door would be an example of where you have low usage and then you can then go over to the usage of a hospital door where you have heavy usage. You have multiple people using this door every few minutes or every few seconds.

They can be using this door. So that would be more of a grade one device as we were talking about that last question. And then you have other doors like auditoriums.

You have heavy usage and quiet doors. You have an auditorium where you have a performance going on. So if someone is using the door, you don't want that door to be making a lot of noise.

So you have something within the bar that it doesn't have that loud clunking sound. So you are definitely in a way where you have differencing in different project types. And so that then expands into there's a lot more door usage these days, a lot more code usage on things of the atriums where you have patios now.

You also started seeing this where you had soundproof rooms. You have operating rooms. There are requirements of doors that are being used after hours.

So all of those different project types may require a different type of code and a different type of requirement as to whether it's a high use door or not. And looking at a specific type of device here, but what should design professionals understand about delayed egress devices? As to delayed egress, this is always a code required type of door. You definitely need to find out with the authority having jurisdiction on what the requirements are.

You have to verify that a standard delayed egress door is okay in that environment, in that location. And the things that have to go with that in the code are the code allows for a 15-second delay up to a 30-second delay. You have to have signage on the door.

There's also different nuisance. You can have zero nuisance up to three-second nuisance. And that's directly related to if someone accidentally pushes that door, that bar, and then they take their hand off of it.

That's what that nuisance is calling for is it doesn't go into full alarm. Then you have a horn that's required there at the door. And then each one of these are code required to have a fire alarm touch to it.

So, or the fire alarm contact attached to it. So, in the event there is a fire in the location, that bypasses delayed egress and allows people to get out immediately. And technology continues to play a big role here.

How do electronic components such as motorized latch retraction enhance safety without compromising security? Really, it's just a matter of electric retraction. It's just a cleaner application when it comes to authority, authorized and personal from the outside. In the past, it may have been electric strike, which has more wires to it.

It's just not as clean installation as a motorized latch retraction. It provides the ability still to use access control to control who's coming through that door when that door opens. And then you can enhance it.

There are other things on the market that allows for only one person to come through with one card. So, there are different capabilities out there that you can definitely enhance the security and keep that door secured for the folks that are coming in the door. Weatherization is one of those details that may make or break long-term performance.

Why is it important to consider weatherization of door hardware? Weatherization is a big deal these days. About 10 years ago, there's been a change in the market. There's been a change in the code, whether it's a door or it's a gate.

A lot of the gates have come into play where before people were putting chains around them and putting deadlocks on them. Now, they get exit devices on them. So, when you have an exit device, you want to make sure that it's tested to solve fog testing, driving rain test, dust and temperature range testing.

So, all of those types of testing, there is only a couple of manufacturers that have that capability of weatherized products. There's a lot of terms out there that are being used where you can say it's weather resistant or different types of terms like that versus something that's really weatherized. It's weatherproof.

It can go out there and it's not going to fail. It's going to continue to work. And the main thing there is a couple of things.

You have the security. You still want to keep the people from coming through the door. But on the interior, you want to make sure you have the safety and the doors still work when someone is on the inside.

And it is an emergency that when they go up and push that bar that it's going to allow them to get out. So, those are the different types of reasons why you want to have that weatherized door hardware. So, testing and certification standards often go unnoticed but really play a critical role behind the scenes.

So, can you explain how hardware performance is tested to ensure reliability during fire, hurricane or tornado events? Well, door and hardware performances are a third-party laboratory that tests that. The importance of that testing is, once again, it gets back to where it's safety. It's safety for all of us to be able to get out those doors.

But on the other side of it is, once we're out, you have fire testing that's done that's exposed to high temperatures and flames. So, it's to prevent the fire from spreading. It gives the firefighters an opportunity to get to those locations where there is fire and get the fire out before it gets into a different location or a different area of that building.

And then as you get into the hurricane and tornado testing, testing is projecting these two-by-fours through cannons and hitting these doors and making sure that during a hurricane event, during a tornado, that something hitting up against the door is not going to force that door to pop open to make sure that when we are in those buildings and there's a tornado or hurricane that those doors are going to remain secure and make sure that we stay safe inside of the building. So, all of these third-party tests that are being done, they provide you with a fire and a hurricane and a tornado product labeled and it indicates that on the covers of the devices. How do ANSI and BHMA standards guide hardware selection? These standards are meant to make sure that when they're being specified that the hardware the hardware meets those safety and strength and durability finishes and there are grade three versus grade one, grade one being the highest performance.

And so, when these products are being specified, a specifier can look at those grades and make sure they're placing the right product on the doors that they're protecting. And what are the potential risks when hardware does not meet required standards? Here there are multiple risks, but I would say for the most part what I've been saying all along is the most important thing is that we have the safety and the security. That's our number one goal.

So, if something doesn't meet the requirements, they could be mean that someone's going to is going to be getting hurt. They could actually get killed. They could get stuck in a building.

And so, those are the risks that it really needs to be a UL or ANSI standards. You need to follow those requirements. Some of the lesser is you don't have accessibility, extreme damage due to fire and weather events.

If you don't have those units, those doors protected and certified for the different types of requirements that are needed, they could be more extensive damage due to the fire or the weather event. And then, you just something that doesn't meet the code, it may not allow for occupancy of the building. Now that we've looked at performance, let's move into accessibility and code compliance a little bit more.

Areas that ensure buildings serve everyone effectively. Accessibility is really one of the most critical considerations in design today. So, what are the key ADA requirements that apply to door hardware? Well, the American Disabilities Act is an act that allows for, you know, a regular doorknob isn't as easy to grab as just pushing down a lever.

The location of where a unit is mounted, so the exit device can be pushed by someone in a wheelchair or someone that's not able to. So, all of the mounting locations, the levers, some doors are required now to have automatic operators and a knowing act button. So, those are all things that help with the ADA requirements.

And then, there's other benefits that manufacturers have come up with. They make an exit device that doesn't have a catching point. So, as you're going through the door, you don't get your shirt sleeve or your arm or something gets caught on the door, preventing you from going through it.

So, there are manufacturers that have the push pads that are flush secured down on the exit device while it's electrical traction or mechanically when you're pushing it in. So, there's also end caps that are not just solid. They are ramped.

They're deflective. So, you don't get caught on the exit devices as you're going through the door. Can you explain how vertical rod and ramped end cap designs reduce barriers for wheelchair and walker users? Yeah.

So, the ramped bottom rod cover, it's a means of deflection. It allows for a gurney or a wheelchair going through a door to not catch on it. So, you don't have to try to manipulate and move the part, the piece that you're going through the door with.

It doesn't jam on it. It just will deflect it, allowing you to smoothly go through the door. And the same with the end cap.

You don't have a solid something to get stuck on there. You have a deflection of an end cap that is ramped, and it allows you just to freely go through the door. And that stands exactly what I was just mentioning about the push bars as well.

The push bar goes all the way flushed into the exit device, and it doesn't allow for you to get stuck on it. It doesn't allow for you to get hung on it. And it's really just a means of what the manufacturers and the codes are doing to allow you to get through that door without getting any catch points.

Now, it's always a good reminder that accessibility isn't static. Requirements evolve as technology and expectations change. How can design professionals best stay current on evolving ADA requirements and code updates to ensure compliance in their projects? Really, it's just a matter of staying engaged with the industry and continuing education programs, continuing to be up to date with the code requirements in the books.

As codes change, you have to be studied and up to speed with what's coming out in 2025 in the codebook versus what was in the codebook in 2021. So, just the keeping up and continuing the education programs is really the way to stay up to speed on that. And what common mistakes do designers make when specifying door hardware? What I'd say here is that the factors of specifying the door hardware is there are different things that come into play.

But, you know, it could be just a misalignment of the door hardware. Maybe you expected the door to do something different from the door hardware you placed on the door. So, overlooking the functional requirements of what you expected the exit device to do.

Or maybe it's a door closer. Maybe it doesn't have enough – the door weight and the door closer don't have the same maximum and minimum requirements of it. So, it's just a misunderstanding of the functionality of the equipment that's going on the door.

So, and the other is the misunderstanding of differences in different manufacturers. So, it's – there's a lot of manufacturers. So, you have to get up to speed on what that particular spec that you're putting on that door and make sure that the specifications meet from the manufacturer to what that door is supposed to do.

And then the last I would say on that is the authority having jurisdiction requirements. If it has delayed egress or it doesn't have delayed egress, what can it have if it has delayed egress? What will the authority having jurisdiction allow for that door to have? So, or they just – they can't have delayed egress in that particular location. So, those are some of the different mistakes that the designers with the door hardware have.

So, what and how then should design professionals document in their specifications to avoid any compliance issues during construction? Well, as technology increases, the sophistication in door hardware does as well. So, there are applications that are being used to complete compliance. The actual dimension product drawings are being dropped into the app.

So, you'll have an app that allows you to have a door, a frame, and hinges in there. And then the applications will allow you to take a manufacturer's product and put it in there in the door. So, there is that technology that's evolving not in the product only, but it also is developing in applications in the apps for specifiers to be able to drop different particular products in a design and make sure that the technical information is correct.

Yeah. So, documentation really does make or break a specification. It does.

And what are some innovations in hardware design that support universal design principles? So, I would kind of get back into the – where we move from and where we move to. And that is really eliminating doorknobs, getting back to where we have door levers. And then where we had – before we had mechanical keys.

Now, everything is kind of a smart lock. It's either a phone app or a code that we're entering or a card. So, there are different ways that we're using product now.

And then with the ADA requirements, they have moved to using automatic operators. So, no one has to push a door open anymore. The motors do it themselves and allow for accessibility much easier.

Now, let's bring it all together and look at how these principles translate into real-world design and performance. How does stainless steel construction improve durability and reduce maintenance for door hardware? Stainless steel is a corrosion-resistance material that is stronger and tougher than other materials. The same characteristics create the low-maintenance material, which can be wiped down with soap and water.

These stainless materials are much more durable when it comes down to exterior use outside and in a weatherized condition. They will also be heavier duty. So, if someone's hitting it harder than they should, they're kicking it.

That's going to allow for the stainless to be more resistant to that. So, those are the characteristics of stainless steel. How does hardware finishes impact long-term performance in coastal or high-humidity climates? There certainly are different coatings that are placed on the finishes to make them more durable.

There's certainly stainless, but there's marine-grade products as well, marine-grade screws. There's nickel plating, power coating, and there's physical vapor-analyzed aluminum finishes. These finishes help prevent.

The physical vapor allows you to remove the moisture from what you're actually adding the finishes to, and that allows for a much more durable finish and protection from a weatherized coastal-type environment. How does ease of installation benefit both contractors and building owners? Well, the ease of installation is really passed on to the building owners. When that contractor hires someone to go out there and install it, or they're going out there to install it, when it installs easy, then it just is going to be less time-consuming.

It's going to be less trouble with the easy installation. So, while having the easy-to-install products, this brings down the labor cost. It's more efficiency in the overall job.

Less time and less trouble reduces the amount of labor cost to the contractor and the building owners. It just overall is going to be much better when you have an easy-to-install product versus something that is more complicated and possibly you have to assemble more, and it just takes more time. Being out there at the job site, you're going to have, you know, it's not the ideal settings where you're on a workbench putting it all together.

It's usually in a door area where you're going to have more shadows. It's going to be a little bit darker. So, trying to assemble all of that at the door is going to cost the building, it's going to cost that owner more because the contractor is having to pay someone more.

So, overall, it's going to be better for the building owner in the upfront part of it for when the installer is installing it. And then as the builder comes and if they're having some trouble or something's not working correctly, it's going to be easier for them as well because it was easy to install. So, it'll be less trouble for if they have to remove something or add something later.

And what advancements do you see being made or could be made to further enhance door hardware? So, I see the enhancements of the door hardware has come a long way. It has changed from where you take a mechanical key and now you just use your phone, go to an app, and unlock a door. Those types of advancements are much more technology.

They're apps and they're smart keys and they're no longer having to keep track of your keys. I think where you could see it is in an ADA type of door where manufacturers are required to use a certain frequency on a fob. And that fob is located on a wheelchair or with a person that when they walk up to it, that door just knows that fob is there, that person is there, and that allows someone to walk up to the door without having to try to find a button and push a button.

It just automatically opens up for them to be able to get into that space, into that opening. So, I'm sure there's more to it than that, but I could see if every manufacturer does that, it's going to make it easier for someone with ADA that doesn't have to try to push a door open and doesn't need to find a key or a card or try to find a button of where to swipe their hand to be able to get into the door. That's kind of where I'm at, where it could enhance the hardware.

Lessons learned from past projects often offer the most valuable insights. Can you share any examples of how properly specified door hardware helped a project be successful? Yes, I would say that in applications where it's not just a standard door, it's just not a door that someone is using to come into a building or to go out of a building, but it could be to say it needs to be a pair of doors that you need the right-hand door to open at certain times for certain cards, and then the left-hand door from the opposite direction doesn't work during that time. So it prevents people from getting into a restricted area.

In all of those cases, and it could be that they're on automatic operators, so in those cases, you would have to specify, you'd have to use a questionnaire, you'd have to use a how-to-order and get all of the details. The details would be, you know, what do you want on the doors? What is the requirement of the door? Is it rated? Is there a lever or a handle on the outside that's needed? And then what electronic function did you want to have this unit do? Do you want it to have delayed egress? Do you want it to have electric retraction? Does it have an alarm? Or is it just strictly a mechanical exit device? So all of those questions are answered. And then you can also have it where you have the latch bolt that's attached to a switch.

So whenever someone does open that door, that sends a signal back to a remote officer's room where they can see that someone has opened that door and they can look at their cameras to see who's going through the door. So there's a number of different electronics that you can put into that application, or maybe it's a receptionist's desk where you can say, you can, the receptionist looks to see who's outside the door and they're talking with them through an intercom system and they can make a decision whether to allow someone to come in that door. So the how to orders and how that door is supposed to work is very vital.

And then once you get into determining how you want that door to work and what your product is that you're going to put on it, then you can then determine whether that product is going to work on that door. You have to know how that door is constructed. Is it an aluminum door? Is it a mechanical hollow metal door? Or is it a aluminum storefront door? So then once you have developed what your product is that you want to put on the door, then you have to say it's going to work with that door or maybe it's a narrow style door.

So we can't go with a wide style exit device. We'd have to go with a narrow style exit device. And then once you're doing that, then you have to determine the swings.

So if you have a left-hand reverse or a right-hand reverse, then you would have to determine what type of levers you would have to hand the exit devices to if they're not able to be re-handed out in the field. So then you'll get into, if they're double doors, you have to get into the height, whether they're 7 foot, 8 foot, or 10 foot doors. So there's a number of different items that you have to go through.

So all of that specification can be done with the questionnaire as to every door you go to, you fill out this questionnaire to make sure that you are successful on your project. And then on the flip side, from your experience, what are some lessons learned from projects where hardware was specified incorrectly? And how can design professionals avoid those pitfalls? Yeah, that really comes into play as to going back to our previous question of using the to order. What is that door supposed to do? There has been experiences where it's been a hotel and a hotel door that it's the main entrance.

And you say from a certain time to a certain time that they want it to be unlocked. And then at a certain time when it gets dark, they don't want just folks coming in from the outside to get warm. So that door is locked and only the folks that are staying at the hotel with a key would be able to use their key to get inside of the door.

And then it's maybe a vestibule. So you have the two doors to contend with as well. So those doors, you want them to have electric attraction, an automatic operator, and then they be in sequence together.

But the outside door you want to open at a certain time and then the inside door you want to not open at a certain time. Or it's the button on the inside. Do you want the button on the inside to open both doors as you move through it? So it really just gets back into the pitfalls of being very specific to the specifications of the door.

What does this door need to do? Let's write it down. Let's make sure we get the order in correctly so all of these different things didn't come back to where it wasn't specified right or the manufacturer didn't know exactly what you wanted the doors to do. And so you get to a project that it doesn't work and now you're having to figure out how can we get it to work? So doing the legwork up front with the questionnaires and how to order certainly helps to prevent any of those pitfalls.

Are there any manufacturer resources or benefits offered to design professionals to help them avoid those pitfalls on future specifications? I would say that the best tools are most of the time on the websites of manufacturers. There are how-to orders. There are the catalog pages that allow for different... You get to see how the requirements of the product is.

But the most helpful tool I would say is to get on the phone and talk to someone and tell me what is your application. And I would just say from my perspective is I have this questionnaire in two pages and it's a questionnaire that continues to grow as I get certain applications that I've not had before and I add those questions to the list. So I make sure that I ask all those questions and get all of the details so there isn't that pitfall, you know.

So I would say use the manufacturer's tech support departments. Use them to be able to make sure you head off any of those issues. Fantastic.

And Russell, as we close out today, what is one final piece of industry wisdom that you would like to share with our audience? Being in an industry as long as I have, there are a number of folks that move with technology, but there are some that don't move in with the technologies. And I would just say that the technologies are here to stay and keys of becoming a thing of the past and that we are surpassing wired technology. I mean, I know that some folks say I don't touch wires and that type of thing.

And I would just say that even the wires are going away. It's all in apps. It's in Bluetooth.

And we do have to keep learning every day. Otherwise, you're going to be left behind in the growing industry. And the number one goal indoor hardware industry, and this is what I always want to keep saying, is it's for safety and security.

We want to make sure that we can get out of a building if we need to get out of a building. But we want to make sure that we're safe in the building. We're secure in the building to make sure that we can't get harm from the outside, whether that's a threat from a person or a threat from weather.

We want to make sure that we are protected inside of the buildings that we're in. And that the all door standards that we've talked about today, all of these standards with the ANSI and the BHMA, they're all minimum standards. So I say that we always try to achieve more, not just get by.

So let's do more than the minimum standard. Let's grow on that. Absolutely, Russell.

Thank you so much for being with us today. We really have covered a lot from the evolution of American building innovation to the fine details of performance, accessibility and design integrity. And for design professionals, it's really a reminder that every specification is an opportunity to shape safer and more inclusive spaces.

We appreciate you joining us on the Spec Shaman podcast as we continue exploring the details that make great architecture possible. Thank you for listening to the Spec Shaman podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe to our show and leave us a review.

A huge thank you to our guests who made this show possible. Thanks all for this episode, folks. See you next time.