Building Safer Spaces: Integrated Door Systems and Code Compliance

This podcast explores the evolution and benefits of integrated door systems in modern architecture, emphasizing their role in enhancing building design, occupant safety, and code compliance. Design professionals will gain insights into how these systems support project efficiency, life safety strategies, and seamless architectural integration. Topics include fire-rated assemblies, smoke containment, and collaboration between architects and manufacturers for integrated door systems. Participants will also examine the regulatory standards, documentation, and certifications necessary for effective specification and inspection for an informed design process. 

The podcast guests include Candace Kitchen, Customer Service Specialist and Patricia Yulkowski, President and CEO of Total Door Systems. 

Design professionals who listen to the podcast can earn AIA CE credit by logging in to www.ronblank.com and taking the online quiz.

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Transcript

Hello, and welcome to the Spec Shaman podcast, the show that explores the world of building product manufacturers, architects and engineers, sustainable design and technology and trends. We engage in thought-provoking discussions with renowned experts, industry pioneers, and visionaries who are making a significant impact in the construction industry. Join us as we explore groundbreaking ideas, revolutionary concepts, and the latest advancements shaping the built environment.

I hope you enjoy this week's episode. Let's get started. Hi, and welcome to the Spec Shaman podcast.

I'm your host, Megan Vipond. I'm joined today by Candice Kitchen, customer service specialist, and Patricia Yalkowski, president and CEO of Total Door Systems. Ladies, thank you so much for joining us today.

Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having us. Thank you.

You were introduced to us by SBC Alliance as part of their podcast series, and today we're really excited to get into the topic of integrated door systems. Candice and Patricia, could each of you share with us what inspired you to get into integrated door systems? Well, my story is much more brief. I was born into the industry, so I guess it's really in my blood.

So I grew up in the business, decided to study architecture and went off and was an architect for about 13 years, but circled back and came back to the business, just like my father, who was also an architect, and I'm now running the company. A little bit different for me. I started in human resources.

That is what my degree was in. I came into Total Door doing human resources, and slowly they gave me opportunities. I'm very thankful for that, and one of the things that I always hear is that once you're in the industry, you stay in the industry, so I'm pretty excited to see where this takes me.

Fantastic. Thank you. So, can you start us off by talking about the difference between traditional door systems and integrated door systems? Yeah, of course.

An integrated door system has all of its components, accessories, hardware, tested together under a single testing label, whereas when you come across your traditional door systems, you may have separate components and pieces that are tested, but they're tested separately and labeled separately. So what this does is it gives you reliability from a single source because doors and hardware can be somewhat complicated, but it doesn't have to be. And how do integrated door systems then influence the overall aesthetic and functionality of a building's design? What's great is where these doors go, people don't typically want doors there.

They're going in there because there's a requirement for life safety or there's a requirement for a performance standards, and an integrated door system can hide that. We can make it a part of the design intention, whether you're pocketing it into the wall, whether you're specifying a finish that matches the surrounding walls or becomes a part of the exhibit, whatever that design intention is, you have some flexibility there. Amazing.

So then what ways can door systems be customized to align a bit better with a project's architectural vision than without compromising on the safety and compliance standards? All integrated door systems and fire rated and smoke rated door systems, they're going to be third party tested. And so that's going to kind of set the standards for how you can customize these openings. So say you want to put a customized finish on an opening like this, through that third party testing agency, they're going to have the standards and the requirements to make sure that that's allowable without compromising the rating on these doors.

So for example, for Total Door, these finishes, these customized finishes just must be applied at the factory of fabrication. We have certain standards that are set in our factory that we make sure that we comply with, that comply with those standards that come from the third party testing agency. So that way we can still bring about these customized options, but make sure that we're still complying with code, that we're meeting those standards, and that when they get out into the field, they're going to meet the life safety standards, they're going to meet those performance standards, and we can be confident about it.

And so we have some control doing it that way. And that's, I think, why a lot of those third party testing agencies will set the standard in that way as well. Yeah, absolutely.

So complying with safety is one consideration. What about any durability or design cohesion when selecting door finishes and materials? We have been pushing a lot for architectural films, which is a new trend in the industry. And these architectural films have a lot of durability, because if you get a gouge or a nick in the field, you can actually just cut out a shape, and then put in a new piece and layer it in, and you can fix it.

But there's a lot of options out there, depending on the openings, and again, the performance standards that you need, that can meet those design requirements. Perhaps you want to go with an Akraven, because those are really great for a lot of hospitals sometimes. That can help with durability as well, and that can also be an option.

So a lot of times it really does depend on the opening, but there are durability and cohesion options to meet those standards, to meet the requirements, to meet the expectations. And sometimes you have to think outside of the box, but that's the good part, is you can think outside of the box. You can try to use a different finish, and maybe it's something we've never used before, but we can do a feasibility analysis on it, and see if it would be a good fit, and be honest if it's going to be a good fit.

Maybe it isn't, but maybe it is, and maybe it's a great fit for that opening, for performance standards, for life safety, for durability, for everything. Now, how can design professionals effectively balance the need for fire-rated doors with the desire for transparency and openness in a design? Yeah, one of the things that I mentioned earlier is that oftentimes our doors are going into openings where it's required, but not always necessarily wanted, right? So what's great is our design, and the way that Leon and Christine Yalkowski designed Total Door was to hide, was to be a part of the opening. And so we have details to be able to integrate the integrated door systems into these pockets, into the walls, held open with low-profile hardware, with finishes that match, that have alignment with the adjacent wall, so that as you're looking down these corridors, you're maintaining that openness because it just looks like it's a part of the wall.

And then when it does close, when you need it for life safety, the hardware pops out to 5-8ths of an inch, so you know exactly where you need to push, so you know how to egress from a building. But when it's open, it is in the door, it's integrated into that door, it projects an eighth of an inch. And so you're looking down that hallway, and if you're not looking, you're probably not even going to notice it.

Yeah, that's really a great option there. What role do door systems then play in achieving seamless transitions between different functional spaces within a building? Absolutely. I think one of the really cool aspects is that you could even do one finish on one side of the door, and a completely different finish on the other side of the door.

And so while most of the time these doors are held open out of the way with the low-profile hardware like I mentioned, sometimes they're closed. And so maybe on one side, you know, you've got a paint, and on the other side, you've got an architectural film, and that's how you meet the design aesthetic. And so you can blend it in, you can make it a part of the surrounding.

It doesn't have to be just this door that's in there. It can be a part of the design. The design is that the door is in there, and then you've created a really nice aesthetic-looking piece.

Yeah, absolutely. So that kind of covers the design and aesthetic portion. Let's talk a little bit about life safety and code compliance.

How can early collaboration between design professionals and manufacturers help in meeting those stringent life safety codes? Life safety codes can be confusing and difficult, and we understand that doors and hardware are not the only thing going into your building. And so manufacturers can help to prepare the opening, make sure that your pocket is designed well, ask questions, help to get an understanding. That early collaboration can help to avoid any potential issues down the road.

And honestly, worst-case scenario, you find out that you've done everything right or that you don't even need X for whatever is required in that opening. But you're fully prepared by having those early conversations and prepping the opening to meet the expectations. So are there any common misconceptions, then, that design professionals might have about fire-rated door assemblies and their integration into design? I think one of the misconceptions, and it's really well the way it's written here, the question is misconceptions about fire-rated door assemblies.

So there is an assembly where somebody assembles the product in the field, and then there's an integrated door system that is completely engineered, and the entire unit is built and shipped to the field for installation. So the assembly or the building of the product occurs in the factory, not on the job site, which really allows for a much more efficient installation than a conventional assembly. How do integrated door systems contribute to effective smoke containment strategies in commercial buildings? So integrated door systems are tested by their third-party agencies to make sure that they meet the most strict codes.

So they're contributing to smoke containment when that performance requirement is required. And so they're going to be tested to the standard or whatever's required for that opening. Whether it's a 20-minute door, whether it's a three-hour door, a fire door, smoke and draft control door, there is going to be a specific performance requirement.

It's just going to be tested by that third-party agency and then labeled to prove that it meets that performance requirement. Every time that you look at these performance and life safety openings, you should be so sure that it meets the requirements because your label should be that easy to read. You should be able to look at the label and know who the manufacturer is, who the third-party testing agency is, what it's labeled to, what it's certified for, is it smoke containment.

Everything should be right on that label. And so an integrated door system has a single testing label for all its components and all its accessories. And so that makes it really simple for when you're checking those openings to be able to look at that single label and know that it meets those smoke containment requirements.

So there are some key standards like BHMA A156.32 that govern door assemblies. Why are those so important in design? Well, that's interesting. Candice had just mentioned the fire rating, which is covered or indicated by the label that goes on the door.

BHMA really sets the standard for performance. So in other words, how many cycles can the door withstand? And the testing standards are extremely rigorous for the integrated door assembly because we're testing the entire system. It is about a four-month test, but what's nice or unique about it is typically in doors and hardware, they test individual components and the life cycle on those components can range anywhere from 200,000 to 2 million cycles.

So what A156.32 does is ensure that your whole system performs to one single level and right now that's a million cycles. So certification, our proof of certification, architects should really be aware of that. So you can simply go to the BHMA website and look up and identify which products have met the performance standards and it's not something that a lot of folks that are familiar with, but it is very important not just to have a fire rated product, but also to have a product that has been tested for performance and meets commercial standards.

Absolutely. So are there challenges then in ensuring door systems comply with both local and international building codes? Well, what's great is like I mentioned earlier, is your label should be very easy to read. So always check that label first.

But Total Door Integrated Door Systems are designed to meet the most strict and the most stringent codes and by doing it that way, it should meet both the local and the international building codes, especially because we're aware that different states may be using different code books and then even locally then using a different code book or a different rendition or a different year. But by designing these door systems to meet the most strict codes always, we can ensure that we're meeting it and be confident when they're going into these openings that they're going to do their job in protecting people and protecting the building's containment. How can design professionals stay up to date on evolving life safety regulations that impact their door system specifications? It can be so difficult sometimes to keep up with the ever evolving codes and changes as far as specifications go and as far as keeping your masters up to date.

So relying on resources and people and experts can be a really great way to do that. Whether your resource is an online database that you have used as a trusted source, whether you have a trusted expert in the industry that you go to, rely on those people, those manufacturers, those trusted people to help you to keep those up to date, because there is so much that goes into every single category for these buildings. So staying updated comes from getting your CEUs and from those resources that are ever changing and ever coming out.

Yeah, absolutely. So speaking of that collaboration then, what are some of the benefits of involving door system manufacturers early on in the design process? You know, as I mentioned previously, worst case scenario, you get the manufacturer, you get that trusted expert involved early, you find out that you are prepared and then you just might not need it, but you were prepared. But what this will allow you to do is potentially avoid any redesign later down the road.

That's going to be an added cost for you. Avoid potentially limiting your hardware options that could go on these openings, because say you don't design a pocket, maybe then you don't have room for a pocketed closer and then you are limited to what closers are available to you. So by making sure that you're getting someone involved early in that design process, you know that you're going to have an opening that's going to meet your expectations and it's going to meet those expectations early on.

You're going to be prepared for that in both design and for your costs. Yeah, absolutely. So can miscommunication between design and manufacturing teams lead to costly field modifications? Absolutely, it could lead to costly field modifications and it could be something really small, like you need to change out the closers because there's not space for them, or it could be something larger, making sure that you're taking the opening measurements correctly, making sure that you're putting the correct pockets in, making sure that you have backing for some of the hardware that might be going on to these openings.

So absolutely, a miscommunication could come across there. And that's why getting involved early can be really, really helpful. So what strategies then can design professionals employ to ensure accurate specifications for their door systems in their projects? I think this comes back to people.

Rely on those people. Of course, people are going to have their own masters. That's completely understandable.

So ask your trusted expert to take a look at it. Don't feel like you're doing this alone. It's really hard to keep those masters up to date.

Everything is constantly changing. So we should all be working together and in the industry to make sure that we're keeping everything up to date so that we do meet all of the code requirements and the standards, the design intent and everything. And we're not doing it alone.

We can rely on each other to meet those standards. How does integrated door system design streamline the installation process on site? What's so great about an integrated door system is that much of it comes pre-installed. So with your standard doors and hardware, you may find that you're putting it together on site.

Pieces and components are coming separately and you're trying to then put it all together. But with an integrated door system, it's going to really streamline that process because much of it will already be on the opening. You'll just need to hang that door into the opening and then potentially make some adjustments.

But that's really going to help cut down on the installation time. But not only time, but I think a really important part is because these are life safety and performance openings, it needs to meet the standards, the clearances and the tolerances. And by having a lot of that already pre-installed, ready to go up into the opening, it can help to ensure that when you check that final install, it does meet those clearances.

It does meet those tolerances. It is going to perform like it needs to. In what ways then can design professionals and manufacturers co-develop solutions for maybe unique project challenges? I would say get on a call.

Get creative. One of the things is that I know that in my generation, a lot of us would prefer an email. But sometimes just getting on that call, describing what you have already designed, because maybe we didn't collaborate really, really early in the project.

What do you have designed? What do you want? And then how can we get there? There are some options. There is some flexibility. Let's get creative.

But let's do it together because you might bring up something that I didn't think about. They might bring up something. Someone else might bring up something.

I may bring up something. You didn't think about. And so it's that collaboration, I think, and getting on that call that can really bring about creativity and allow us to develop a solution for these types of openings.

Absolutely. So when it comes to sustainability, how do integrated door systems contribute to a building's overall sustainability goals? Well, I think we've been very conscientious and we're now on probably our third UL EPD reiteration and we have our HPD as well. We look at this as an opportunity to really benchmark where we are.

And it's not just having the environmental product declaration from UL. It's using it as a baseline to make sure that every time you renew that, manufacturing wise, you are having less impact on the environment. So our goal is every time we renew to decrease the impact that we're having on natural resources.

So it's been great effort to keep this up. And again, it's not just a single product we have this for, but our entire door system. So Total Door does contribute to the sustainability by having a UL EPD.

And we also do have a relatively low impact on the environment. And you can count on that improving every year. Are there resources available for architects to deepen their understanding of integrated door systems? There are so many resources out there in the industry.

And going to conferences and taking CEU credits and all of that can help to keep everybody up to date. And these resources vary, which I think is really excellent. Maybe it's a resource where you can go on there and you can identify a trusted expert and then you can give them a call.

Or maybe it's a resource where it's just something that you can do self-paced online. Again, just another good resource. Perhaps it's something where you take a course live.

Whatever it may be, there's a lot of options for whatever would meet your expectation for how you prefer to take in any potential new or different intellectual pieces. So these resources are ever evolving. They're continuing to come out all the time.

The AIA show just happened and I know that some new stuff had just come out there and was announced. It happens every year. So just staying up to date on what is new and what's coming out.

There's so many different resources. People have so many different ideas. Just don't be afraid to use them.

You're never alone in trying to work out these types of openings. They can be confusing, but they don't have to be. Yeah, absolutely.

So how can continuing education programs enhance a design professional's ability to specify appropriate door systems? We are a huge advocate for continuing education programs. They are an excellent way to get to know about the different codes and options in your industry. And there are so, so many options out there for what you can take.

It can almost be quite overwhelming. But continuing to take those education programs can allow you to not only potentially learn something new. Maybe you get a really good reminder about something that you already knew.

And then you also meet that trusted expert, whoever's teaching that course. So you're getting kind of the entire timeline of what potential you might need. Because you're going to learn something, you're going to get a really nice refresher, or you're going to gain a new trusted guide for something potentially in the future.

So are there certain key topics that should be included in training sessions about door system integration? Absolutely, there are key topics that you would want to include in the training of an integrated door system. But sometimes I think these key topics are going to apply across the board and across different industries. And one of those things is project management.

There is turnover and retention and everything that's going on. And so if we're managing the project right from the start and making sure that we are getting those finite details that are oftentimes overlooked, and we're starting off and we have a good understanding of what's needed immediately, that can really help to make sure that it is a set opening that's going to meet the requirements, going to meet your expectations. And then, too, you might look at how can you as a design professional know when something meets the expectations, when it meets the standards, when it meets the performance, when it meets life safety.

And part of that is just understanding the label and understanding what you should be looking for, knowing that if a specialty finish other than paint is going on a rated door in the field, you're probably voiding the label. Sometimes it's those little details and components, but knowing it beforehand can help you to maintain the project as it goes through and really put your foot down. So those are some kind of key things that can be included in training.

But knowing a few things beforehand can really help when you're going through the project. Yeah, absolutely. So continuing education, training, all good resources.

What role do professional organizations play in distributing knowledge about door system innovations? I think BHMA as an organization has really made a great effort to come up with a continuing education class for architects so they can understand the importance of performance requirements. And that really top of mind is really the number one organization that I can think of. You're also going to have organizations like DHI, Door Hardware Institute, and that can be a great place for you to get some continuing education as well and classes to understand a lot of these difficult topics.

Fantastic. Let's switch gears just a little bit from maybe a little bit more technical side to some trends and evolution. How is the integration of smart technology influencing the design and functionality of door systems? The smart technology, I think, is having a big effect on R&D and development of product with a lot of software that now provides finite analysis.

And in combination with 3D printing, it's allowed ridiculously fast prototyping to occur. So I think you're going to see a lot of evolution and improvement in product. So this goes into the development of the product.

But then also, how will it affect the performance of the product? I think it's not too far into the future that you are going to see integrated door systems being able to identify status of a door, whether it needs repairs or environmental conditions surrounding that door. So I think there's a lot of opportunity. I think we've just sort of scratched the surface of how smart technology will be able to impact the performance of the doors.

And what trends are emerging in the customization of door systems to meet the diverse client needs? One of the things I mentioned earlier was the architectural films. That has actually been a huge trend. And what's nice is they have thousands of options.

There's different companies that you could potentially go with. And then they also oftentimes offer customized options within that. And it's really great because these films are scrubbable, washable.

They're consistent across your basis. So you're going to find that, you know, this door is going to look like the next door. Right.

So this trend, I think, is really great because it's a more sustainable option. And sustainability has been huge for a lot of buildings. So instead of using a true wood veneer, for example, using these architectural films can be a more sustainable option for these types of openings.

So I think the films has been a really cool trend. And I think it's going to continue to tick upwards as people see all of the options that you could potentially go with. Whether it's a wood-like, stone-like, paint-like, whatever it may be.

How might changes in building codes shape the future development of integrated door systems? We were actually just talking about this and we were saying that we think it already has. The building codes shape a lot about what we do. And one of the things that came up after doing a CEU was that there used to be a requirement in a lot of these elevator shaft openings for venting.

But the building codes have kind of shifted now and they're focusing heavily on the containment, the smoke and fire containment. And so the fact that the building codes have already kind of started to shape that trend in that transition into integrated door systems protecting these types of openings is huge. And we think that it's really going to continue to push that way.

The big word that I think drives a lot of these codes for an integrated door system is compartmentalization. Whether it's compartmentalizing a different area of a building, a different occupancy of a building, even down the corridor to separate. I think that's where that really comes into place.

So these changes, I think, are going to continue to drive a lot of what is behind these integrated door systems. You talk about compartmentalizing. Can you talk a little bit more about that and maybe which design approaches work best to achieve that? There are going to be a lot of codes out there that require compartmentalization for different types of openings.

And what I mean by that is there are going to be horizontal openings that require compartmentalization because maybe it's every so many feet that you need to separate the corridor. Or maybe it's a vertical opening where you need to provide compartmentalization for your stairwells or your elevator shafts because you don't want those to essentially become large chimneys in a building where that smoke can travel to. So what we're trying to do is create these spaces where either people can go to long enough for safety personnel to arrive on scene to help them or create a space that contains that smoke and fire so that you can safely egress via another means out of the building.

And so that's where that compartmentalization really, really is going to come into play because you're creating these safe spaces in these buildings, whether it be a high rise or whether it be a low rise that only is a couple of stories. This is going to apply across the board to so many different types of buildings. And so I think that's what's so unique about these integrated door systems is they're going to be required in all different types of buildings, all different types of occupancies, different types of areas.

But they're going to do the same thing. And that's provide that life safety and performance standard and protect people. So what are some of those different areas where these integrated door systems are likely to be needed? You may see that they're needed in, like I said, these vertical openings, your elevator shafts, your stairwells and these horizontal type openings, cross corridor.

And then depending on the direction of egress you might need, these cross corridor openings may be doors that swing in the same direction or they may be doors that swing in opposite directions, allowing egress in both direction. And it's going to apply across the board to the different vertical markets as well. Whether it's a hospital because you're compartmentalizing a safe space from your burning space, whether it's a school because, again, you're trying to compartmentalize different areas, maybe your stairwells, museums, airports, hotels, you name it, it's probably going to be a good fit somewhere.

They are niche openings, but these niche openings apply to most buildings. And is the specification process, the documentation, the labeling, is that all cohesive across all of those locations or are there different requirements? Absolutely. This is such a good question because there's going to be a lot of similarities and there's going to be a lot of crossover, but there are also going to be some specifics for different types of openings.

So what I always say is when in doubt, describe it out. Describe to your trusted expert exactly what you need, whether you need fire and smoke containment, whether you need access control. Is the access control in what direction? Which way is the door swinging? All of these things are going to come into play.

Who is using the door? Is it going to be hit often? There are different pieces, accessories, hardware components that can go on these door systems depending on what is needed for these openings. So while there's going to be a nice baseline specification for what should go into these types of openings, there could be some specifics that are going to apply to different openings depending on what is required and what's needed. So when in doubt, describe it out.

Give as much detail as you possibly can. That's what your trusted expert is there for. They can make recommendations because you let me know that a student is going to run through and probably karate kick the door open.

Well, no problem at all, because there's hardware designed for abuse applications. But knowing that beforehand can again, going back to one of our earlier questions, help to avoid issues down the road because you've specified hardware that's going to best meet that type of opening. Absolutely.

So how can design professionals prepare for the evolving landscape of door system technologies and regulations? Resources, resources, resources and people use those CEUs, use the resources that you have and rely on each other. You know, use LinkedIn to connect with people. That's a great place to find industry professionals that can be a trusted expert for you.

So don't be afraid to just make sure that you're constantly using those resources, updating them, making new connections and networking, because that's going to really make sure that you can keep up with the evolving landscape, because the fact of the matter is, is it's not just integrated door systems, technologies and regulations that are updating. It's everything. And it's hard to keep up with.

And so that's why we have these resources out there. That's why we have these podcasts, so that we can get the information out there in a reliable way where you might be in the car and you can be listening to this and still getting that information and knowledge, even when you're very, very busy. Yes, definitely.

So you mentioned there's multiple components here, multiple considerations. So what about when integrating these door systems and smoke control doors with maybe access control, fire alarms or other building management systems? Like I said earlier, getting out a call can be extremely helpful. Oftentimes, your integrated door system is going to provide the electrified portion of what is going to be needed for that.

But then if there's any questions down the road, just get on that call. There's going to be technical sheets. There's going to be details that can help to detail those types of things out for these openings and what might be required.

But if there's any questions, then absolutely, your manufacturer can help you to work through that. Everything that we have on our website is a canned spec, so if they don't see it there, that's a real or if they don't see a prepared spec, that should be an indication that they need to call the manufacturer for the details and not try to create it themselves. So if it's not out there and ready available, that's a sign that they shouldn't create it.

They should really go to an expert for some consultation. So with these integrated door systems, do you see it mostly in new builds or can it be used in a retrofit situation? Both. A passionate both.

New construction is a really great place, of course, because you can design these openings, meet your aesthetic design intent and pocket them, whatever it may be. But I think retrofit is oftentimes overlooked and it's a passionate subject of mine because I work a lot with codes and there's a lot of buildings out there that were built before the codes came out or maybe the code was overlooked or whatever the scenario might be. But these integrated door systems can be an excellent way to provide protection in these retrofit buildings that are being updated and upgraded.

And so integrated door systems can go into these existing openings and provide that protection where it's required or needed. So new construction, retrofit, those are all really, really great applications for an integrated door system to provide that protection. And we can start to make sure that these buildings, whether new or existing, are safe for all people at all times.

Could you share some examples where integrated door systems might have helped solve specific building or design challenges? The way that integrated door systems work is that there are different ways to fit these openings. So one of the unique openings is a pair of doors that are double egress acting. One leaf, though, swings 90 degrees and the other swings 180 degrees.

That's an opening that you could potentially see in a hospital, and it's unique in that a lot of door systems aren't going to allow for the different degrees of swing on each leaf. But an integrated door system can achieve that, and that allows you to still be able to build these openings. Maybe you're protecting around a corner of a building, and that's going to still look really, really nice in those types of openings.

We did have one application in a high rise where the architect had a very, very specific face on the door that they wanted, and it was for compartmentalization through the entire height of the building. And they wanted to put a very, very special sort of like a tile porcelain. They had a very special porcelain that they wanted to put on the doors.

And they had actually asked us to fire test for them, and they paid for the test and we did, and they were allowed to be able to put that finish on the door to meet their aesthetic requirements. Patricia, can you speak to the importance of independent specifications in the industry? It's really kind of fascinating. The industry over the years has become so consolidated, which means that there are really pretty few independent manufacturers.

So throughout this consolidation, we have some pretty large players in the market that often offer to write specifications for the architects. So they will provide specific specifications and, of course, all of their own product will be specified. These products may be actually different businesses, but they are under the same ownership.

When writing the specifications, it's critical to have an independent spec writer that is a professional that is going to give you the best solution for what you need. If we go with the manufacturers and allow them to write the specifications for all the openings, we often find that there aren't always three products from different owners represented, and it can really impede competitive bidding. So what they found in the past is when you do allow a large organization to write those specs, it can drive up the costs of that project 30 to 40 percent.

And while it might seem for the architects who are just absolutely overworked, it might seem like a good solution, at the end of the day, it's not the best solution for the end user because it ends up costing them more money. And there's sort of a fiduciary responsibility to the client. So I would say the best bet for spec writing is go with an independent spec writer that doesn't have an affiliation with the manufacturer, number one.

And number two, never go with a proprietary spec. Always leave it open so you can ensure that your client is getting the best number that they can for the solution. Absolutely, yes.

So Patricia, Candice, what is maybe one final piece of wisdom that you'd like to share with our audience today? I think it's really easy to get on board with life safety. And I think that's where a lot of mine and Patricia's passion comes from, because you're protecting people, you're protecting buildings. So having a integrated door system out there that's going to provide that you have that reliability, that responsibility to make sure that you have these compliant open doors, it's easy to get on board with it.

It's easy to get on board with making sure that people are safe and that these buildings are going to last a long time. A piece of wisdom, too, from us is just that it's not just a fire door. It's not just a smoke door.

These doors are protecting people. They're providing life safety. So understating what they're doing happens often, but we just want to get across the point that they're more than that.

They are life safety. Yes, absolutely. Safety of people, the building, definitely a priority.

Well, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and insights with us today. It was a pleasure having you both on the Spec Shaman podcast. Thank you very much.

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A huge thank you to our guests who made this show possible. Building product manufacturers who want to increase their specification opportunities, please visit specshaman.com or ronblank.com. Thanks all for this episode, folks. See you next time.